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 Sujet du message: Re: Affaire Cousteau
MessagePublié: 10 Juin 2011, 14:02 
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Plus sa continu plus sa devient délirant, on dirais un test de crédulité.
On commence par un animal mystérieux qui aurais bouffer une cage a requins puis un plongeur qui aperçoit un monstre marin. Puis une expulsion par les autorité pour gardé cacher une espèce inconnue...
Maintenant on nous explique que Cousteau a identifier l'animal, on nous parle de lieux difficilement vérifiables.
Ensuite d'une étude et d'une identification de l'animal et puis d'un secret garder par l'état et/ou la famille Cousteau a révéler a mort du commandant.
Sans parler de cette vielle rumeur délirante sur la conversion du commandant Cousteau a l'Islam, celle la je l'est entendu ado au lycée et c'était un sujet de plaisanterie.

Bon c'est quoi la suite? L'animal est un ET? Le poisson qui avaler Jonas? L'ile vivante du 1er voyage de Simbad le Marin? Une arme secrète? Un Grand Ancien?

[Edit] Bon Paul a réponse a tout et la réponse se trouve page 42 comme par hasard... :roll: Comme quoi il faut pas grand chose pour faire partir une rumeur et les gens préfère rêver que douté.

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 Sujet du message: Re: Affaire Cousteau
MessagePublié: 10 Juin 2011, 14:10 
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La réponse en 1 seule image.

Edit: D'ailleurs ceci est le 42ème message du topic.

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 Sujet du message: Re: Affaire Cousteau
MessagePublié: 10 Juin 2011, 14:27 
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En cherchant encore un peu, j'ai trouvé un article dans une publication scientifique qui fait allusion à l'affaire : Charlier et al., Journal of Coastal Research, Vol. 22, No. 5, Sep., 2006 ( http://www.jstor.org/pss/4300395 ).

Je vous cite le passage pertinent :

Citer:
The Monsters of the Deep

The superstitions of seamen are a well-recorder phenomenon, which is understandable because the waters that surrounded them were frightening at night and strew with all kind of dangers. The perusers of old maos will certainly have observed illuminations showing terrible monsters surging from the deep, enlacing ships, and trying to draw them underneath. Stories about mythical animals from the sea abound.

Frightening sea tales have not vanished with the dawn of the age of technology. French military stationed in the tiny Republic of Djibouti reported seeing such a sea monster in the waters of the Goubet, a narrow passage connecting a gulf opening on the Red Sea off Djibouti. When the Calypso was in the Red Sea, the crew saw the monster and filmed it but carefully guarded the discovery and treated it as a secret. In this instance the Cousteau team issued a formal denial by communiqué (through the Fondation Cousteau)[11] and its book.[12] In fact the monster they filmed was a giant manta ray (Manta bistrosis) that indeed lives in the gulf.


Les références en question sont les mêmes que l'IVC :
Citer:
[11] Y. Paccalet, "Le monstre de Cousteau", Calypso Log, vol. 63, November 16, 1987.
[12] J.-Y. Cousteau and P. Diolé, La Vie et la Mort des Coraux (Paris:Flammarion, 1971), p. 42.


Il laisse entendre que Cousteau a réellement filmé une raie manta dans le Goubet, ce qui n'est pas dit dans le livre, comme vous l'aurez constaté (Cousteau suspecte la légende d'avoir été inspirée par un tel animal mais il n'en a lui-même pas observé dans le Goubet). Est-il possible que l'équipe Cousteau soit effectivement retournée dans la région entre 71 et 87 et y ait filmé une raie à cette occasion, ou s'agit-il d'une erreur de la part des auteurs ? Il faudrait lire l'article de Paccalet pour s'en assurer...

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 Sujet du message: Re: Affaire Cousteau
MessagePublié: 10 Juin 2011, 14:50 
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Bon, j'en ai trouvé une copie sur PriceMinister pour 4 €.

Voyez les sacrifices que je fais pour ce site ! Mais la vérité n'a pas de prix. :ugeek:

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 Sujet du message: Re: Affaire Cousteau
MessagePublié: 10 Juin 2011, 15:12 
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Au moins, comme ça, on pourra pas dire qu'on investit pas dans nos enquêtes... :mrgreen:

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 Sujet du message: Re: Affaire Cousteau
MessagePublié: 10 Juin 2011, 15:20 
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En ce qui concerne le côté "Lac Tahoe", j'ai pu retrouver via Internet Archives un article des Nevada State Archives qui a depuis disparu du web : http://web.archive.org/web/200610032340 ... yth151.htm


Citer:
Nevada State Archives
Historical Myth a Month
Myth # 151

Getting to the Bottom of Lake Tahoe

by Guy Rocha, Nevada State Archivist

The BS associated with Lake Tahoe may be as deep as the lake. That’s if you believe the Sierra Nevada lake has a bottom. Some claim a fresh-water monster, equivalent to Scotland’s Loch Ness monster and affectionately named Tahoe Tessie, lives in the alpine lake. Others tell tales of dead bodies sinking to the lake bottom still intact today because of frigid water temperatures. They include Chinese woodcutters from the late 19th century and victims of 20th century mafia hits. Perhaps every sizeable lake in the world has its equivalent stories, but what do we actually know and why?

Stories of bottomless lakes seem to be very popular. However, Lake Tahoe has been sounded and scientifically mapped using the latest technologies. All the depths are known. We can thank Nevada journalist, writer, and politician Sam Davis for giving us the tall tale of The Mystery of the Savage Sump (1901) which claimed that Lake Tahoe had a hole in its bottom and was connected to the lower levels of the Comstock mines. The hole was plugged or unplugged as needed to manipulate the price of mining stock, or so Davis’s tale went. William Meeker, a San Francisco stock speculator involved in the elaborate stock market swindle was murdered in 1869 at Lake Tahoe by Colonel Clair, his partner in crime, according to Davis, and his mangled body found in the scalding waters of the Savage Mine sump. The short story is pure humbug and a hoax.

Then again, if there were a hole in the bottom of Lake Tahoe, maybe Tahoe Tessie commutes to Pyramid and Walker lakes in western Nevada. Both lakes have their tales of water monsters.

However, there is no hole and Lake Tahoe is not bottomless. That would help explain all those bodies floating at the lake bottom after so many years. The stories are myriad about a submersible under the direction of the famed Jacques Cousteau detecting perfectly preserved bodies including those of drowned Chinese woodcutters. The truth is that Philippe Cousteau, Jacques' grandson, visited Lake Tahoe in April 2002, but there is no record of Jacques ever seeing the jewel of the Sierra, much less his being involved in an underwater expedition or using a motorized submersible camera to explore the icy depths.

One online story explains that Jacques Cousteau didn’t follow through on his plan because “a stop was quickly put on the mission by some powerful people.” Claiming that the Lake Tahoe area had a long history associated with organized crime figures, and recalling The Godfather II movie (1974), we are told in the website, “You see, it is so deep, so cold, -- so crystal clear, that there were a few people that were worried that a guy wearing concrete shoes, swimming with the fishes, if you will—might pop into the camera’s sights. Therefore, even though the technology is there, no one knows exactly how deep the lake is or what secrets it might hold.”

Speaking of fish stories, this website story is a whopper! Dr. Graham Kent of the University of California, San Diego’s Scripps Institute of Oceanography who has extensively studied Lake Tahoe’s depths finds these flights of fancy incredible. Kent is unaware of Jacques Cousteau ever visiting Tahoe, but more importantly he points out dead bodies would not last even at the bottom of the frigid lake. If the fish and the crawdads didn’t eat them, the indigenous bacteria eventually would.

The naïve will continue to swallow these imaginative Lake Tahoe stories hook, line, and sinker. Yet in the end discerning minds will see through the fish tales that pass as fact and have a good laugh at the never-ending gullibility of human beings.

Photo credit: Site of the future Sand Harbor State Park on Lake Tahoe's eastern shore, looking north, ca mid-1960s. Photo by Don Boone, Nevada State Library and Archives.

The Historical Myths of the Month are published in the Reno Gazette-Journal and in the Sierra Sage, Carson City/Carson Valley.


La légende circule depuis 2005 au moins. A-t-elle été inventée suite au passage de Philippe Cousteau dans la région en 2002 ou est-elle plus ancienne ?

Edit : elle circule même depuis 2003 au moins : http://www.nevadaappeal.com/article/200 ... /306220106

Citer:
Scientist to plunge to floor of Lake Tahoe
By Gregory Crofton, Tahoe Daily Tribune
Sunday, June 22, 2003


The deepest depths of Lake Tahoe may soon be seen for the first time.


Tahoe Deep Blue -- a project involving a scientist, deep water explorer and a videographer -- aims to take a remote operated vehicle 1,645 feet to the bottom of Lake Tahoe in October.

What sits at the bottom of the lake is anybody's guess. At the very least the Tahoe Deep Blue team knows an old steamer, the S.S. Tahoe, sits 300 feet down 1 mile out from Glenbrook Bay. They also believe another steamer, the Comet, was scuttled in the middle of the lake.

But are the bodies of mobsters at the bottom, their feet encased in cement? Or is there a once Virginia City-bound stagecoach somewhere in the lake? Stories abound about what the frigid tomb of Tahoe contains.

"With all the crawfish in Tahoe I don't think we'll find bodies, but you never know," said Charles Goldman, a University of California, Davis professor who founded the Tahoe Research Group. "This unit is by far the most sophisticated I know of in terms of deep exploration. It's equivalent to the kind they used on Titanic."

The exploration project, a nonprofit venture, is scheduled to last about three weeks and happen in the fall when tourist numbers are down and the clarity of Tahoe tends to increase because there is less algae.

The project is estimated to cost about $250,000. Mike Conway, co-owner of K-MTN television at South Lake Tahoe, is in the process of tracking down people interested in financing Tahoe Deep Blue. He will also be in charge of videography.

"A group out of Silicon Valley is coming up (Tuesday)," Conway said. "They may toss in some large amounts (of money). A couple of billionaires have taken some letters of intent already."

Tahoe Deep Blue may become a reality in 2003 because the owner of Deep Seas Systems, Christopher Nicholson, recently became the sole owner of the remote operated vehicle, called a Max Rover, to be used for the project. It is worth about $1.4 million and is equipped with sonar that can detect wood and metal within 1,000 feet.

"It hits metal and it rings like a bell," said Nicholson, who used a remote operated vehicle to shoot video of the S.S. Tahoe in 1994. "The hope is that we can go out and locate unique and interesting sites and come back with an HDTV camera system on an underwater vehicle. That's like being there, looking through a pane of glass."

In 1979, Goldman went down 1,000 feet into Lake Tahoe in a submersible craft near Incline Village.

"It was quite exciting," Goldman said. "We made important discoveries -- that algae can grow in an area one presumed to be in complete darkness."

Goldman says in October he hopes to use the Max Rover to study fault lines in the lake, a landslide that took a chunk out of the West Shore and learn more about the movement of sediment particles.

Goldman said it is just a rumor that Jacques Cousteau, the famous underwater explorer, has been beneath the surface of Lake Tahoe. But a relative of Cousteau's did visit the lake at one point, Goldman said.

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 Sujet du message: Re: Affaire Cousteau
MessagePublié: 10 Juin 2011, 15:29 
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Je confirme que Philippe Cousteau, petit fils du commandant, s'est bien rendu au lac Tahoe en 2002 :

Citer:
Philippe Cousteau Will Present TMCC's Distinguished Lecture, April 12
home > news > philippe cousteau will present tmcc's distinguished lecture, april 12

news iconPosted 02/22/2002

Philippe Cousteau, grandson of Captain Jacques-Yves Cousteau and son of Jan and Philippe Cousteau, will present "The Philippe Cousteau Foundation: Continuing a Legacy," for this year's Distinguished Lecture Series at Truckee Meadows Community College on Friday, April 12 at 7 p.m.

The presentation will be at the Dandini Campus, 7000 Dandini Blvd, Sierra Building, room 108. Seating is limited, and tickets may be purchased at $15 for adults and $10 for students by calling (775) 673-7291. Proceeds from the event will fund scholarships. Mr. Cousteau's presentation at TMCC is sponsored by Nevada Bell, Wells Fargo Bank, the TMCC Foundation and the TMCC Humanities Department.

A free event for the public — "Meet Philippe Cousteau" — will be held Saturday, April 13 at 10 a.m. at the Esoteric Coffee House and Gallery at First and Sierra Streets in downtown Reno. At 11 a.m. Cousteau will join in a Truckee River clean up. After the clean-up, TMCC art students and local artists, along with instructors who will bring their art students, will turn river junk and debris into art. Among the artists will be Brenda Retterer, Cheryl Tenk, Rebecca Shadowitz and Petra Rees, who will bring her middle school art class.

The 21-year-old Philippe, a member of the now legendary Cousteau family, is continuing the work of his father and grandfather. He is the president of the Philippe Cousteau Foundation, named for his father, and works to educate the public about environmental and conservation issues. The nonprofit organization was created by his sister and promotes conservation and sustainable development initiatives that will lead to global-ecological balance.

"I will talk about how the issues that face Lake Tahoe are a microcosm of the rest of the world and how we can learn from managing the resources of Lake Tahoe," Cousteau said.

"Our foundation's mission is to inspire a sense of stewardship for our water planet and create an environmentally sustainable future," Cousteau said. "Young adults and children are the future caretakers of our planet, but we want all people to see and understand the world we live in. We want them to value, respect and above all re-evaluate the crucial relationships with our environment."

Cousteau has been scuba diving since the age of 12 and has served as a research assistant at Papua New Guinea and at Bonaire in the Netherlands Antilles. He regularly speaks to the high school students and teachers of the Boston Sea Rovers, one of the oldest diving and conservation societies in the United States. Cousteau also addresses graduate students at Harvard University.

In addition to his research and foundation work, Cousteau is continuing his studies at the University of St. Andrews in Scotland and divides his time between Scotland and Florida.

For further information on the Cousteau events or to purchase tickets to the April 12 presentation, contact TMCC at (775) 673-7291.


Je ne serais pas surpris que la variante américaine de la légende soit née à ce moment-là. Je n'y ai en tout cas pas trouvé d'allusion antérieure à 2003 (ceci dit, internet n'était pas terriblement populaire avant cette époque...).

Alexandra Cousteau, une petite fille du commandant, est également passée dans la région en 2010 : http://www.laketahoenews.net/2010/08/co ... -at-tahoe/

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 Sujet du message: Re: Affaire Cousteau
MessagePublié: 10 Juin 2011, 15:47 
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Paul Binocle a écrit:
Il laisse entendre que Cousteau a réellement filmé une raie manta dans le Goubet, ce qui n'est pas dit dans le livre, comme vous l'aurez constaté (Cousteau suspecte la légende d'avoir été inspirée par un tel animal mais il n'en a lui-même pas observé dans le Goubet).


J'aurais bien soupçonné une erreur de traduction, mais le nom de l'auteur principal sonne quand même très français...

Travail impressionnant en tout cas, y compris pour la variante "lac Tahoe" de l'histoire. Tant qu'on ne trouvera rien d'antérieur à 2002, on pourra considérer comme valide que l'origine de l'affaire est la venue sur place de Philippe Cousteau.

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 Sujet du message: Re: Affaire Cousteau
MessagePublié: 10 Juin 2011, 15:48 
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J'aurais bien soupçonné une erreur de traduction, mais le nom de l'auteur principal sonne quand même très français...

Il travaille dans une université néerlandophone, mais il a co-publié au moins un article en français.

Citer:
Travail impressionnant en tout cas, y compris pour la variante "lac Tahoe" de l'histoire. Tant qu'on ne trouvera rien d'antérieur à 2002, on pourra considérer comme valide que l'origine de l'affaire est la venue sur place de Philippe Cousteau.

Je suis en train d'écrire un petit mail à l'administrateur de laketahoenews.net, on ne sait jamais.

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 Sujet du message: Re: Affaire Cousteau
MessagePublié: 10 Juin 2011, 16:21 
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J'ai reçu une réponse, on me conseille de contacter le Tahoe Environmental Research Center ou un historien local. Je tente l'historien.

Edit : après recherche, il n'est pas littéralement historien. Il s'agit de ce monsieur : http://www.laketahoenews.net/2011/04/en ... are-wrong/

Citer:
Author, professional speaker, civil and environmental engineer and self-proclaimed myth buster, David Antonucci says he just wants to set the record straight about, as he puts it, the widely repeated fibs, fakes and falsehoods surrounding Lake Tahoe.


Je ne sais pas s'il aura des informations pour nous mais cette description est encourageante (ceci dit, son combat concerne les dimensions exactes du lac :P).

Sinon, on peut aussi envisager de contacter une autre personne dont il est question dans l'article :

Citer:
Lake Tahoe weather historian, author and professional speaker, Mark McLaughlin said he thinks Antonucci may be too concerned about fairly minor matters, although he has not looked into the assertions and said he can’t comment on their veracity.

McLaughlin has his own bucket list of incorrect facts, such as the claim that the region receives 300 days of sunshine a year or that Jacques Cousteau explored Tahoe in a submersible, perhaps both subjects of another article.


Edit : je crois que c'est vers ce monsieur-là que la dame de LakeTahoeNews.net voulait m'envoyer, il a écrit des articles sur l'histoire du lac. Il a même un site internet : http://www.thestormking.com/

Je vais lui écrire également.

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